How does AP determine "Not applicable to your system"?

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John_in_Mtl
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How does AP determine "Not applicable to your system"?

Postby John_in_Mtl » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:56 pm

Hello Everyone :)

Systems: Win 7 Pro SP1, a bunch of x32 and x64 machines.

A simple question: How does AP determine to flag a KB as "Not applicable to your system"?

Yesterday I was updating a machine and got a bit more curious than usual as to how AP determines that a patch applies or not, to a particular installation. Normally, after I do my usual runs of AP (download, install, reboot), I then run MBSA to check for security compliance and anything that might have been missed. MBSA will often report some KB's as missing so I hunt around in the AP folders or head on over to the MS Catalog site to find the patches and apply them manually. Sometimes a patch really does not apply to a system and the patch itself, trying to install, will report as such and abort the installation. That's fine with me, I leave it at that.

But yesterday I decided to do an AP run and KB3191566 (Windows management framework 5.1 ...) was checked on the list. Upon highlighting it to do some reading on what it was about, AP reported "Not applicable to your system". As a test, I closed AP and fetched it from the folders and tried to install it. Surprise - it did install and WU confirmed its installation / presence.

So this has left me with the question stated in the title... I will add that I rely very heavily on AP and MBSA to keep my 4 machines fully patched, as this makes (my) life so much easier than the built-in Windows Update. Although not a huge dealbreaker, It would be nice if I didn't have to second-guess AP in regards to which patches do in fact "not apply" to a system.

Any thoughts, insights, mods I could make on my end, etc.?

Thanks a bunch, AP team!

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Whatacrock
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Re: How does AP determine "Not applicable to your system"?

Postby Whatacrock » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:09 am

@John_in_Mtl --- [q]A simple question: How does AP determine to flag a KB as "Not applicable to your system"?[/q]

Autopatcher does not as far as I am aware have the ability to flag updates as "Not applicable to your System"
Autopatcher attempts to install all checked updates in sequence and once completed displays the finish button. Upon restarting AP and select Install Updates it will more than likely display those that were previously listed. A good practice I observe is to make a list of these and attempt to install each one manually, those which are not applicable I then add to the blacklist.

KB3191566 is an unusual update as this requires the User to manually install it (refer to viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1472&p=5873#p5873). The apm module is just for the detection of the update.

Autopatcher is not the be all to end all solution for updating your system, it works in conduction with WU to keep it up to date.
"Now if you Sons of B*@ches got anything else to say, NOW'S THE F@#%ING TIME!!"

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TheAPGuy
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Re: How does AP determine "Not applicable to your system"?

Postby TheAPGuy » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:20 am

There are several updates that will hide themselves until conditions are true; Registry entries, Files (existing or versions of files), OS type, Your CPU, other updates have to be installed first, and even whether I like you or not (not really).
Most of these will grey out or be hidden. If you turn off the "hiding" by going into options and clicking "show hidden files" checkbox. You can see them. if you try to select them... in the description box you can see why they would normally have been excluded from your list.

If you see an update there that you think should have NOT been hidden or should have been, give us a reasonable argument for either way and we will consider it.

John_in_Mtl
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Re: How does AP determine "Not applicable to your system"?

Postby John_in_Mtl » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:39 pm

If you see an update there that you think should have NOT been hidden or should have been, give us a reasonable argument for either way and we will consider it.
Thanks for the reply. I'll see what happens on the next round of updates and will report back.

John_in_Mtl
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Re: How does AP determine "Not applicable to your system"?

Postby John_in_Mtl » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:52 pm

@John_in_Mtl --- [q]A good practice I observe is to make a list of these and attempt to install each one manually, those which are not applicable I then add to the blacklist.
I understand, but wouldn't this be pretty much almost unique to each machine/OS installation? For instance, I hardly ever install the "non-critical" updates - I read about them individually then I decide if a patch is useful / worth it / applicable to a particular system. So this would affect AP's decision to flag an update or not as applicable/not applicable, no? I never use WU nor any of its subsystems, and I'm guessing AP does not rely on any information in the C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution folder; at least I hope not 'cause that is not at all up to date on my machines. But I've never had any major troubles with AP over the years and MBSA does indeed confirm that AP does a pretty good job at patching :D
@John_in_Mtl --- [q]KB3191566 is an unusual update as this requires the User to manually install it (refer to viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1472&p=5873#p5873). The apm module is just for the detection of the update.
Ok, I didn't know that!
@John_in_Mtl --- [q]Autopatcher is not the be all to end all solution for updating your system, it works in conduction with WU to keep it up to date.
AP might not be THAT powerful but it sure is a very useful tool :D I never use WU, not good enough, especially with what happened last summer with the massive slowdowns and screwups. MS wants us all on Win10, no thanks for me!

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my original post.

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Re: How does AP determine "Not applicable to your system"?

Postby TheAPGuy » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:15 am

The MAIN reason AP can update soo good is because WAC is great about keeping on the updates and usually not missing anything. :)
The reason you should also use WU with this is because WU will get system dependent updates/drivers that are not for all people but, for the computer(s) you are working on. The updates AP will give you are generally for ALL computers.

I feel your pain on the slowdowns we all did. There were discovered ways around that though. Such as turning off WU service and then doing the updates.(this worked for a lot of people) Make sure to turn service back on though.

John_in_Mtl
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Re: How does AP determine "Not applicable to your system"?

Postby John_in_Mtl » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:50 pm

The MAIN reason AP can update soo good is because WAC is great about keeping on the updates and usually not missing anything. :)
The reason you should also use WU with this is because WU will get system dependent updates/drivers that are not for all people but, for the computer(s) you are working on. The updates AP will give you are generally for ALL computers.

I feel your pain on the slowdowns we all did. There were discovered ways around that though. Such as turning off WU service and then doing the updates.(this worked for a lot of people) Make sure to turn service back on though.
Well, APGuy and What-a-Crock, Thank You for your relentless work in keeping this tool alive :D

I learned very early on never to use WU for drivers! In fact, a few years back, we had someone at work misconfigure about 50 new PC's in lecture halls and spent months running around fixing video drivers that would download from WU at night and clobber the HDMI projector connection, unleashing a regular deluge of support calls. We eventully found the culprit config and all was well afterwards.

For the slow WU, there's a great & regularly updated "fix" posted here: http://wu.krelay.de/en/ Works flawlessly every time! For windows 7 % 8.1 x86 & x64.


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